HN 写作课

工程师们二十年里聊过的写作。

工程师、作家、编辑和创业者在 Hacker News 上聊了二十年“怎么写”:怎么写得清楚、怎么讲好一个故事、技术文档怎么写、小说和出版是怎么回事。这里把其中关于写作与讲故事的帖子挑出来,配上中文导读、可以直接用的写作要点和评论翻译。

从必读开始
  • 2,600+篇关于写作的 HN 讨论

Writing tips

写作锦囊

正在抽一条写作要点…

Essential

必读 30 篇

在讨论库里看全部精选

编辑精选里 HN 讨论最热的 30 篇,每篇都有中文导读和写作要点。

  1. 正在载入…

Archive

讨论库

按发帖年份分布,点柱子筛选。

排序

    About

    这些讨论是怎么挑出来的

    1. 01

      从全量里捞

      读取 Hacker News 自 2006 年以来的全部帖子,用关键词先捞出 40 分以上、可能和写作有关的约 1.1 万篇。

    2. 02

      只留真正讲写作的

      由 AI 逐条判断是否和写作、讲故事、文风、出版有实质关系,剔除“写代码”“编辑器”这类字面撞车,并分进十个类别。

    3. 03

      提炼可用的要点

      为值得读的帖子写中文导读,提炼 2-4 条可以直接用到自己写作里的要点,并精选翻译 HN 高赞评论。内容由 AI 生成,可能有误。

    写作方法2021enkiv2.medium.com编辑精选

    写作建议不该再瞄准那些讨厌写作的人

    Writing advice should stop targeting people who hate to write

    阅读原文 HN 讨论
    90HN 得分
    52条评论
    4条写作要点

    导读

    作者认为,市面上的写作建议大多是写给「讨厌写作、需要逼自己坐下」的人,教的是自律与坚持;但本来就享受写作的人需要的是另一类建议。评论区不少职业写作者反驳:怕写初稿、爱写完了,在专业圈里其实很常见。对写作者来说,这篇值得读,因为它逼你想清楚:自己缺的到底是意志力,还是方法。

    关键词 写作习惯创作心态初稿写作建议

    可以直接用的写作要点

    1. 01

      把写作、修改、评判、发表当成几顶不同的帽子,戴上写作帽时,先把其他帽子放下。

    2. 02

      初稿阶段的注意力放在「用哪个词把意思说准」「这一段往哪走、走多快」上,发表和成败留到之后戴别的帽子时再操心。

    3. 03

      不要只消费「怎么开始写」的入门建议,主动去找中高级阶段的内容:长文结构、修改方法、与编辑和合作者协作。

    4. 04

      承认「讨厌写初稿、喜欢写完了」是很多职业作者的常态,别因为过程难受就断定自己不适合写作。

    HN 评论精选

    讨厌写初稿和写出好作品可以并存,不必把「享受过程」当成写作的前提。

    我所在的写作小组有十位已出版作者,其中八位非常讨厌写初稿,常抱怨要逼自己坐下来把字落下来,普遍心态是「我恨写作,但我爱写完的感觉」。可这八人拿到过大合同、卖出过影视改编权、销量成千上万,更重要的是收到过读者来信说他们的书改变了自己的人生。我自己属于「每个阶段都爱」的那类,但我完全不反对别人抱怨讨厌写作——他们写出了我读过最好的作品之一,如果抱怨几声能换来这些,那就抱怨吧。当然,我保留嘲笑他们抱怨、并用我无穷的热情烦他们的权利。

    paperwasp42查看英文原文

    I'm part of a writing group that consists of 10 published authors. Of the 10, 8 absolutely despise writing first drafts. Those 8 constantly groan about having to sit their butts in the chair and get the words down. There's a common mentality of, "I hate writing, but I love having written." But those 8 members have landed several major deals, had movie rights sold, hundreds and thousands of copies sold, etc. And perhaps more importantly, they've gotten letters saying that their work changed people's lives for the better. So although I personally fall into the "I love writing in all its stages" category, I have no problem with other writers talking about how much they hate it. Those people create some of the best work I've ever had the pleasure of reading. If it takes some moaning and groaning to make it happen, then so be it. That being said--I will reserve my right to tease them about their moaning and annoy them with my undying enthusiasm. :)

    刻意区分写作、评判、编辑、发表等不同「帽子」,一次只戴一顶。

    我在艺术学校教书,也做过视觉特效、平面设计、编程、音效等各种创意行业的自由职业。我能给创意工作者的最好建议是:学会换帽子。戴着写作帽时,把评论帽、编辑帽、出版帽都放下;不想写的时候,专门留时间去戴那些帽子。这一点说起来容易做起来难,大多数人干活时总在操心别的环节。让「我想怎么发表」的念头流进来可以,但别为它焦虑,等回头用另一顶帽子重读时再焦虑,或者开始写之前就先焦虑完。写的时候就操心写作本身:哪个句子能传达什么,文字往哪发展、多快。这种有意识的切换很难精通,因为没人会告诉你什么时候该戴哪顶帽子、戴多久、哪顶更重要、哪顶该交给别人——这非常个人化,但认真想过一次,长期回报很大。

    atoav查看英文原文

    As someone teaching at art school and who worked and works as a freelancer in all kind of creative professions (VFX, graphic design, programming, sounddesign) I think the best advice you can give to anyone in any creative profession is: Learn to switch hats. When you have your writing hat on, put your critic hat, your editor hat, your publisher hat, etc. down. Make space for the other hats in times when you don't feel like writing. Same is useful for music, film, painting, design, art. The thing is: it is really easier said than done. Most people constantly worry about other domains when they work on their things. Sure, let some ideas of how you want your work to be published flow into your writing, but don't worry about it. You can still worry later when you read the text again with a different hat. Or you could have worried about that before you started writing. Worry about writing, about which phrase to use to convey what, worry about where you want your text to develope and how fast. The mastery of this type of very conscious context switching is hard, because nobody is going to tell you which hat you need to wear when and for how long. Nobody will tell you which hat is more important, and which you better leave to others. It is a very individual thing, but one thinking about really pays off in the long term.

    写作建议偏向初学者,是因为教入门容易;真正稀缺的是中高级阶段的建议。

    这大概是因为大多数自助、自学类内容都面向初学者,或者面向「喜欢开始做某件事」这个念头的人,因为这样作者容易获得成就感,而且写入门内容不需要你是专家。就像编程领域有无穷无尽的「用某某写你的第一个待办应用」,却没有「如何和五个各干各的同事一起维护一万行代码」。如果你喜欢写,你大概已经在写了,那就不算初学者了。所以这个论点也可以表述为:我们需要更多中高级水平的建议。

    tayo42查看英文原文

    I think this is just because most self help/self learn topics focus on beginners or people who like the idea of starting. It's easy for the writer to get a win. You don't need to be an expert to write something targeted at beginners. Like in programming, that's why we have endless "how to write your first todo app in ..." and not "how to maintain and organize a 10k loc application with 5 co workers all trying to fuck it up" If you like to write, you're already writing, you're not a beginner anymore I would think. I think the same thing could be written as we need more intermediate and advanced advice.

    即使把写作当热情和职业的人,也可能讨厌写初稿——这说明「讨厌写」不等于「不是写作者」。

    嘿,很高兴在 HN 首页看到你的作品。不过我不同意你的核心论点:) 我是职业写作者,写作差不多是我唯一能变现的技能,也是我的热情所在,可写初稿对我来说像拔牙:过程艰苦,当下很少享受,写完能展示成果时才非常满足。我正是「恨写作、爱写完」这个老套说法本身。而且在写作者当中,这种感受并不罕见。

    exolymph查看英文原文

    Hey you! Nice to see your work on the front of HN. That said, I disagree with the thrust of your thesis :) I'm a professional writer, it's pretty much my only monetizable skill as well as my passion, and writing first drafts is like pulling teeth. It's arduous and I rarely enjoy it in the moment. Very satisfying when I'm done and get to show off the result, though! I am exactly that cliché about "hate writing, love having written." This is not exactly an uncommon sentiment among writers, either.

    同类还值得读

    1. 被低估的工程技能:把文章写好

      Undervalued Engineering Skills: Writing Well

      这篇文章讨论为什么“写得好”是被低估的工程能力,以及它如何在团队协作、系统设计和职业发展中持续带来回报。

      写作方法2019 · 1,109 分 · 371 评4 条写作要点编辑精选
    2. 每行只写一句话:让写作和修改都更轻松的排版法

      Writing one sentence per line

      这是 Derek Sivers 的一篇短文,主张写作时每行只放一个句子,而不是按段落排版。

      写作方法2022 · 849 分 · 297 评4 条写作要点编辑精选
    3. 书面沟通是远程工作的超级能力

      Written communication is remote work super power

      这篇文章讨论远程工作中书面沟通的价值,评论区则补充了异步与同步沟通的适用场景,并提醒读者:备忘录、结论先行、结构化命令格式等书面沟通传统早已有之。

      写作方法2020 · 831 分 · 190 评4 条写作要点编辑精选
    4. 如何写出有用的文字

      How to Write Usefully

      保罗·格雷厄姆在这篇文章里给"有用的写作"下了一个可操作的公式:有用≈重要×新颖×正确×清楚,任一项为零,整篇文章就等于零;他还主张敢下确定判断、删掉让自己心虚的句子。

      写作方法2020 · 821 分 · 285 评4 条写作要点编辑精选
    5. 如何写得更清楚、想得更清楚,并学会复杂材料(PDF)

      How to write more clearly, think more clearly, and learn complex material [pdf]

      这份 PDF 讨论如何把文章写清楚、把思路理清楚,并用写作来学习复杂材料。

      写作方法2022 · 779 分 · 153 评4 条写作要点编辑精选

    打赏支持

    打赏二维码

    觉得有用,请作者喝杯咖啡。

    WeChat

    关注向阳乔木

    微信公众号「向阳乔木推荐看」

    微信公众号「向阳乔木推荐看」二维码

    微信扫一扫;在微信里打开本页时,长按二维码识别。