写作方法2020news.ycombinator.com
如何与团队进行深入的书面讨论
How do you have deep, written discussions with your teams?
导读
一位分布式团队的管理者发帖求助：邮件线程一长就乱、Slack 太碎、会议偏爱临场发挥，怎样才能让团队进行深思熟虑的书面深度讨论？他倾向于老式 BBS 的「一主题一线程」结构，又担心没人愿意用。对写作者来说，这篇讨论的是「论证型写作」需要什么样的载体和纪律——工具只是表层，规则和维护才是关键。
可以直接用的写作要点
- 01
给每个议题一个独立的讨论单元（一个帖子或一份文档），不要让论证散落在邮件回复链和频道消息里，否则再好的论点也会被淹没。
- 02
深度讨论要留出异步的时间差，让人可以离席找证据、想清楚再落笔，即时会议只会产出「热评」而不是论证。
- 03
写作不只发生在发布那一刻：后续讨论改变了结论时，要回头修订或批注早先的材料，否则文档会腐烂成没人信的旧版本。
- 04
同样的工具可以是宝库也可以是垃圾堆，差别不在软件，而在你是否定下使用规则并持续投入维护。
HN 评论精选
工具不是关键，关键是给长期内容定载体、定维护规则并持续投入。
真正的问题在于：你既想从临时对话里捕捉内容，又想长期积累结构化信息。技术解决不了这个问题，但用错工具会让它更糟。要做三件事：a) 为长期内容选定一个载体；b) 定下使用规则，更重要的是维护规则；c) 持续投入时间。很多人只在 (a) 上花功夫，忽略 (b)，回避 (c)——比如后来某次讨论微调了结论，就得有人回头修改或批注早先的材料。Wiki 就是例子：大家都见过极好用的，也见过什么都找不到的烂摊子，差别不在技术。务实起步的话，可以先用共享盘（Google Docs、Dropbox）加简单目录结构和规则，或者用附件和搜索能力好的 wiki 类系统。
ska查看英文原文
The real problem here is that you have things you want to capture from ephemeral conversations, and you have structured information you want to build up over time. Technology can't solve this for you, but using the wrong one will make things worse. You need to a) pick a medium for the longer lived stuff b) come up with some rules for how it will be used and, probably more important, maintained, and c) put the time in, ongoing. Lot's of people spend time on (a), don't spend time on (b) and try and avoid thinking about (c). This means for example if a later conversation shifts the table a bit, some one needs to go over earlier material and adjust or annotate it. I think a lot of approaches can work, but they have to be flexible - you need to be able to structure things, and also add different media (links, embedded images/scribbles, whatever). By nature any system that allows this will let you make a terrible mess of things. Consider for example Wiki's. I'm sure most of us have seen useful wiki based documents, and completely useless messes where you can't find anything. The difference isn't the technology. Trying to be practical, I would start with either a file system structure on a shared platform (google docs, dropbox, whatever) with some simple structure and rules. Or a wiki or wiki like system with good attachment support and hopefully search.
用「段落级」的主题线程替代「行级」的即时聊天。
我会试试 Zulip。Slack 鼓励的是在基本固定的频道里做「行级」的碎片聊天，而 Zulip 鼓励的是在轻量、易检索的主题线程里做「段落级」的讨论。
cjbprime查看英文原文
I would try Zulip: https://zulipchat.com/ Where Slack encourages line-level chats in mostly static channels, Zulip encourages paragraph-level chats in lightweight and findable threads.
用「活文档」承载持续演进的深度讨论。
在 LightStep，我们用「实验笔记本」——本质上是围绕进行中的工程项目持续更新的活文档，很适合以分布式友好的方式做较深的技术讨论。
medhir查看英文原文
At LightStep, we use "lab notebooks", which are essentially living documents for ongoing engineering projects. They are pretty nice for having deeper technical discussions in a distributed-friendly manner. https://go.lightstep.com/rs/260-KGM-472/images/lab-notebook-template.pdf
用论证树结构把复杂争论拆成主张与反驳的层级。
（利益相关：自荐）与其用主要为聊天和评论设计的工具，不如用专门为梳理、记录和呈现复杂论证而设计的工具。我们做了八年，叫 Kialo，本质是一棵强化版的论证树：主张与评论分离、可投票、主张可多重链接、可切换用户视角，支持单论点与多论点论证；讨论可实时或异步、公开或私密、桌面或移动端进行。
Kialo查看英文原文
(Obviously biased.) So, instead of using tools primarily designed for chatting and commenting, you could use a tool specifically designed for the facilitation, capturing and representation of complex arguments. We have spent the past 8 years building just such a tool, it’s called Kialo (https://kialo.com). It’s nowhere near as perfect as we would want it to be, but it gets the job done nicely. In a nutshell, Kialo is an argument tree on steroids, with claim/comment separation, voting, claim multi-linking and switching of user perspectives, for single and multi thesis arguments. Discussions can be real-time or async, private or public and worked on via desktop or mobile browser. Here is a discussion Ethereum did whether they should use Kialo: https://kialo.com/28996 (103 claims) And as an example of a multi thesis debate, have a look at this US politics one: https://www.kialo.com/24431 (>1k claims) Two months ago we launched Kialo Edu (https://kialo-edu.com), our dedicated site for educators, as we wanted to build some extra functionality for them, additionally to giving them a more controlled environment without the public discussions. We plan on releasing a custom site with additional decision-making features for teams and organizations soon (drop us a mail if you want to be notified support@kialoXXcom), until then, feel free to experiment/use kialo.com. All feedback is welcome.
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