小说与文学2021washingtonpost.com
爱伦·坡是最有影响力的美国作家吗？一本新书给出证据
Is Poe the most influential American writer? A new book offers evidence
导读
《华盛顿邮报》介绍一本新书，书中主张爱伦·坡是美国最具影响力的作家，并列举他首创或完善了推理、科幻、心理悬疑、哥特恐怖等多种类型。评论区围绕“如何衡量影响力”“坡是否真的发明了这些类型”展开辩论，值得写作者思考：类型从不是凭空诞生的，创新的真实含义往往是继承与转化。
可以直接用的写作要点
- 01
谈“原创”前先做谱系考证：坡的侦探小说常被视为首创，但霍夫曼的《丝库德利小姐》早了几十年，因此写作者应清楚自己站在谁的肩上。
- 02
与其争论排名，不如先定义标准：影响力是按模仿者数量、作品质量，还是按影响方式，也就是直接启发一小群人，还是广泛渗透大众文化？标准不同，结论也不同。
- 03
衡量影响力的两种模式（地下丝绒式的“看过的人都去组乐队”和迪伦式的广泛渗透）可以反过来指导自己的写作定位：是要影响同行，还是要影响大众。
- 04
书中只罗列成就，却没论证“最有影响力”，这提醒我们：写作时列完素材后，必须补上真正的论证逻辑，不然再漂亮的清单也说服不了读者。
HN 评论精选
坡是集大成者，但并非这些类型的发明者；谈“开创”前应先梳理前史。
我爱坡，但说他“发明”了这些类型很有争议。推理方面：坡的《莫格街凶杀案》发表于1841年，而霍夫曼1819年的《丝库德利小姐》才是侦探小说的原型，甚至主角是女性侦探。哥特方面：坡的哥特小说写于1838–1842年，而沃波尔1764年就写了《奥特兰托城堡》，拉德克利夫1794年写了《尤道弗的奥秘》，1817年奥斯汀已在《诺桑觉寺》里戏仿它。科幻同样历史悠久。
pmoriarty查看英文原文
"Before his death in 1849 at age 40, Poe largely created the modern short story, while also inventing or perfecting half the genres represented on the bestseller list, including the mystery ("The Murders in the Rue Morgue," "The Gold-Bug"), science fiction ("The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar," "The Conversation of Eiros and Charmion"), psychological suspense ("The Tell-Tale Heart," "The Cask of Amontillado") and, of course, gothic horror ("The Fall of the House of Usher," "The Masque of the Red Death," the incomparable "Ligeia")." I love Poe, but whether he can be credited with inventing these genres is highly debatable. On the origin of the mystery tale, Poe published "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" in 1841, and "The Gold-Bug" in 1843. In 1819 ETA Hoffmann wrote "Mademoiselle de Scuderi". To my knowledge, it was Hoffmann's work, written decades before Poe's, that was the prototypical detective story (featuring a female detective even!). On the origin of the Gothic, Poe published "The Fall of the House of Usher" in 1839, "The Masque of the Red Death" in 1842, and "Ligeia" in 1838. By then, the Gothic genre was well under way, with Horace Walpole having published the classic The Castle of Otranto in 1764. Ann Radclife (the mother of the Gothic) had published The Mysteries of Udolpho in 1794 and it was already parodied by Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey in 1817, long before Poe even started writing any of his Gothic fiction. Science fiction has a very long history, and depending on how you define it could go back at least to the 2nd Century AD, with Lucian's A True Story (featuring travel to outer space, encounters with aliens, and interplanetary warfare), but if you didn't accept that as "true science fiction" there are plenty of other candidates which predate Poe, such as parts of the Arabian Nights (well over a thousand years old by the time Poe started writing), Gulliver's Travels (1726), Voltaire's Micromegas (1752), and of course Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (1818).
影响力难以量化，也不必强行排名。
没有对照组、没有确凿证据，怎么衡量一位作家在社會、文化和模因层面造成的模糊影响？给“潮流引领者”排名，不过是一种狭隘的地方性判断，是基于个人偏见和成长背景的轶事式自我评估。而且，为什么不能有多位作家以不同方式同样有影响力，而非要排名？草莓、蓝莓、覆盆子各有各的好。
failwhaleshark查看英文原文
How does one begin to measure an amorphous social, cultural, and memetic inflection due to a particular author without a control and without concrete evidence? To attempt to characterize trendsetters seems purely provincial and an anecdotal self-assessment based on biases and upbringing. Furthermore, why can't a number of books and writers be similarly yet differently influential without a requirement of ranking them? Can't there be strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries?
缺乏明确标准时，“最有影响力”只是成就清单。
坡无疑是最有影响力的美国作家之一。这个问题本来无解，讨论的乐趣在于确立比较的标准，而这篇文章没有这样做，只是罗列坡的成就。要谈“最有影响力”，还得谈影响的广度，我会投马克·吐温，斯坦伯格或梭罗也可能入选。你们的看法和标准是什么？
timoth3y查看英文原文
There is no question that Poe is one of the most influential writers in American history. It's an impossible question to answer, and the fun of these discussions is in establishing the criteria for the comparison. This article doesn't do that. It's just a list of Poe's impressive accomplishments. However, if we want to talk about the most influential, we should also talk about the breath of their impact. I would give the nod to Twain but maybe Steinbeck or Thoreau would be in the running. Thoughts? Criteria?
影响力分为直接启发少数人和广泛渗透大众两种模式。
有个说法：地下丝绒乐队当年只有一千人（也许是100人）看过演出，但那些人都出去组了自己的乐队。那么坡的影响力是“地下丝绒式”的还是“鲍勃·迪伦式”的？文章没说清，也没真正论证他最有影响力。考虑到他做的事之多，他的影响大概像迪伦那样广泛，而不是像地下丝绒那样直接。而广泛影响通常也需要质量支撑，但文章并未就此论证他是最伟大的。
bryanrasmussen查看英文原文
well there's a saying that when the Velvet Underground was around only a thousand people ever saw them (maybe it was a hundred, don't remember very well) but every one of those people went out to start a band. So is Poe influential in the way of VU or influential in the way of Bob Dylan. The article doesn't actually say, and doesn't make much of an argument for him being the most influential (what argument there is, is more hinted at then effectively made) but given the many things he did I suppose the influence is widespread like Dylan and not direct like VU. If so - I believe widespread influence generally requires quality as well - and the article won't argue that as to him being the greatest.
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